Some one asked indieweb vs Fediverse

The indieweb is strongly individualism, where the Fediverse is more community based, though says it’s individualism to get #mainstreaming outreach (white lie).

  • indieweb is a good fit for capitalism
  • Fediverse is (as of now) a bad fit for capitalism

So it depends on your (mostly unspoken) view on politics. In this they use overlapping tech but for different use, they are both #openweb native.

Thinking about the social tech mess

#fashernista and the media are always a problem that is hard to do anything about. They shift the focus from the grassroots to themselves and tell #mainstreaming stories because this is what the media wants to hear.

The undercurrents that is the story drafts back into the flow and nothing is understood, no change or challenge happens.

We are sold for some ones fragile egos moment of feeling important.

This is crap behaviour.

A coversation on trust and tech with #OMN projects

Remember the #fedivers is built like this, no geek in their right minds would do this, yet we use it every day

All our existing code is based on feudalism master (admin) surf (user) this is why it is defenceless vs capitalism (#dotcons)

There have been attempts to build democratic code, early #wikis, think #indymedia

#geekproblem “common sense” shifted them back into feudalism.

We have a hard #BLOCK on democratic code, if you want to change/challenge then this blocking needs to be removed.

The #OMN is a project for this, it’s an uphill battle to bring democracy into our coding.

This is the media project (text needs a update” unite.openworlds.info/Open-Med

Governance for horizontals to talk to “vertical power” unite.openworlds.info/Open-Med

And a video for you visionon.tv/w/jqTdss1qrdk4yEZi

We get into the details, of the #OMN you would get Boleyn tag changes on import, so you can auto translate guardian issued tags and add your own tags with both rules and manually.

These tags would flow out of your instances and could flow back to the guardian if you trusted each other.

The idea is to turn news stories/videos into “commons” objects with rich flowing metadata… done in a #KISS way based on trust/moderated link/flows

RSS bring in the legacy objects #activitypub is the main transport protocol.

It’s the news part of the #fediverse our first implementation of this would be #indmediaback

The idea is to decenter the server, the data is in a soup that flows… #activertypub is two-way this is need to build the horizontal network, so the soup does not ONLY flow one way.

Nobody is in charge, no slaves, no masters. Only trusted or moderated flows. It needs to be two-way, though you are right people being human meany will be one way. BUT we are not building it that way πŸ™‚

RSS brings the legacy in, and it’s a simple display format for embeds and passive news feeds etc.

I think people find the “nobody is in charge” bit very hard thing to understand, even though we have built meany networks/social groups on this idea, and still do.

In the realm of tech, I call this #blocking the #geekproblem and to get anywhere we need to take the “problem” outa “geek” or we are left with the mess (in a bad way)

#KISS

 

 

Talking to people about #twittermigration

Thinking of stepping away from the #dotcons to the #openweb a conversation with an activist signing up on a big general instance – they kinda all do this.

A. You might be better off on an activism focused instance, https://activism.openworlds.info, but you will be fine on the one anyone, as they all talk to each other. The instance you join is your “home community” so good to join one that matches your interests and mission.

Q. Thank you so much – I am entirely lost here as just arrived and the whole ‘find your server’ bit flumoxxed me! Excuse what’s likely a silly question – but ‘where is my main profile?’ ie: where whatever bit of Mastodon I’m on… I would
be the same me?

A. you have joined a big general instance’s https://mastodon.online/ it’s a fine place to be. You can have more than one account on different instances, I have 3 mastodon accounts on 3 different instances, run 2 of these as a part of the #OMN

Ps. hashtags are your friend, use them in posts and click on them to find interesting people

Q. so if I boost a post on one account – I would need to also boost on other ‘me’ accounts in other arenas/spaces? Thanks so much for your help x

A. you can do that, but you don’t need to. All the instances are kinda one big space. The import bit is that each instance has a community and focus, so it helps yourself and the #openweb if you put our self into a subject instance.

For example, if someone complains about your posts it’s the mods and admins of the instance you join get to decide if it stays up or your account gets closed… so best to have a relationship with the instance admin and mods… This is much easer on a smaller, friendly focused instance than a bigger, more inpersional general one.

It’s much more #DIY and human relationship than #twitter.

A actavist history of the web

The “better” #closedweb (ISP intranets) was “surprisingly” destroyed by the “inferer” #openweb which then exploded in use to spread everywhere.

The #mainstreaming thinking then tried and failed to recapture this #4opens project for ten years as it takes up global space, and was a real challenge change, that the “common sense” said should not exist.

This working alternative was finally sold out by our own #fahernistas, who bribed with money and statues members of the “unthinking” #geekproblem to build the #dotcons that rapidly took over the #openweb space.

Our wider activist #fashernistas created “liberal stories” about how embracing the #dotcons was a good path. The wider #fahernistas flocked to these #closedweb spaces to grasp at the real early power they provided, after society had finished this shift, the bate and switch took this power away, and we were left with “servalence capitalism” and no social power, as was obvuse at the time it was a con.

Our #fahernistats then pissed tech change/challenge agenst the wall for ten years. While the #openweb user facing technology withered, ignored and irrelevant to #mainstreaming

A few years ago we had an “accidental” #openweb reboot with #activitypub and soon after pushing of the next generation of #closedweb projects with #web03 leaving us in the current messy times.

Yes now the #dotcons are roting, but the #openweb is only a small change challenge due to our #fahernistas and #geekproblem actively #BLOCKING the change challenge inherent to the project.

Where are we now and what can we learn from this?

Liberalism in tech are often active prats, co-opting, bait and switch and taking the easy #NGO funded path when the choice comes.
They are #friendlyenemies, even when they deny this with all their “common sense”
Ideas to mediate this, please?

Do you except that “new” is often #deathcult (neo-liberalism) and #postmodernism because this is “common sense” what is your plan/idea to get around these problems?

I have had 20 years of “new” and am very underwhelmed, actually it’s almost all #blocking or adding to the #techshit to be composed. This is obviously a problem that needs to be mediated, what is your plan/process to have a better outcome?

Remember that the only thing that has worked in the last 10 years has been copying #dotcons with #activertypub every themselves has failed, what can we learn from this?

This is an important question that the #OMN project mediates.

Dig, plant, grow. Compost the #techshit, repeat.

Q. We need to be honest about this

A. I joined here only recently to experiment with the Fediverse, and that’s my first impression too. The two hottest kinds of topic I found were meta discussions such as “Twitter users will come here now”, and “the system is fucking with us using vaccines”.

Q. we build at Alt but will people come, some will. Moving away from the #dotcons it’s a tiny step we need to do more, MUCH more #OMN

A. people use the mainstream media because there they can find the information they want, their friends, and have a pleasant experience with highly usable tools. Only a very small group of people would use a privacy-oriented social media with complexities such as a federated network just because “fuck the system”. Even a nerd with the obsession for cybersecurity and privacy like me has an hard time finding interesting stuff here. And, believe me, I’m trying.

Q. this is an excellent question to ansear.

There are two points:

Firstly, we had exalent outreach alt media around for 20 years, #indymediaback is an example project that we need coders to help reboot.

Secondly, to think that we/you have any chance of grassroots progressive social change challenge without working alt media is a fatal fantasy. We can clearly see this in the mess of the last ten years.

We have the codeing tools #activitypub, and we have the historical social models that we know used to work, but had scaling issues.

The #OMN plan is simple, bring the new working technical scaling to the old working social models/process #4opens

As you say the fedivers made up of copies of #dotcons is too small a step.. We have to take the next step if we have any seruse ideas about change/challenge of the current #mainstreaming #deathcult

We have to change, challenge our social ideas and social process in what is left of the #openweb

This is less fundermentalist than it sounds as open-source (free softer) development already works mostly #4opens so the change being pushed by the #OMN is #nothingnew

This should be easy, but #BLOCKING has obviously to be overcome, dig, plant, grow. Compost the #techshit, repeat. One good first step is to be honest about our own funding.

A. being “alternative” is not a strong selling point because you define yourself relatively to something else instead of having your own identity. This dooms you to be always in the shadow of “the mainstream” as a sort of second choice.

Q. Being alternative USED to have a strong identity as did #openweb and yes you are right they DO NOT have this any more, this is a problem we should change challenge not except as “common sense”.

Think before replying as this conversation is more about agreeing then division, focus is good.

Doing the same thing in the same context and expecting different results is one of the clinical definitions of insanity

Q. Doing the same thing in the same context and expecting different results is one of the clinical definitions of insanity. πŸ˜€

A. That is EXACTLY the #mainstreaming problem the #hashtages are about, well said. If it’s not different, it’s not working #nothingnew

WE have solved this problem in the past but have not had a way to scale these solutions, now we have a technological way of scaling but have lost the “working activist culture” to social use with the technological scaling.

This is the story and the path, let’s get biblical.

#OMN

Talking about storys and #stupidindividualism

Q. One difficulty that I personally have with your communication methods is your use of hashtags that convey meaning to the people that already know and use them, but are opaque to someone who doesn’t know what they mean.

You end up being only able to communicate with people within your own filter bubble.

What are the ranges of different patterns of communication that you have tried?

Which ones worked more effectively with which audiences?

A. As we talked about before, the #hashtags are a collective social story, but what is obvious is that if there is no collective there is no story… So if you want the story, build the collective to tell the story.

Bit of a chicken and egg issue, ay.

It’s #4opens non #mainstreaming change challenge… If nothing changes there is no challenge, thus it’s completely up to “us” not “me” am doing my “modernist” story, as you say if we all do different story’s the is no outcome.

Someone at some point has to add to the story, retell it, shape it and use it for change challenge.

I repeat, I have done my bit, been at the front line of this social story for 40 years and am now sailing off on my lifeboat.

What are “we” doing with this story, that has passed through “my” hands

Anyone can pick up the power of the story or let it fall as sand as we currently do.

Remember you would have to be completely #stupidindividualism to only see this as “my” story, it’s obviously not πŸ™‚

#nothingnew

People BLOCKING the needed process, or more normally simply ignore it.

If you keep doing the same thing, there will be the same outcome. Different world views have different process and sometimes different outcomes.

All the #OMN projects are based on a different world view that we know can work to build “society” with scaling limitations and combining this with using #openweb tech that we know can scale.

The problem we face is communicating this to people who have NO knolage of either of these things or ONLY knolage of one of these things.

When they have no knolage of this subculture that all our civil rights are based on, they apply their all-knowing #mainstreaming “common sense” to BLOCK the needed process and codeing, or more normally simply ignore it.

Ideas?