Funding application for the #OMN

Funding application for the #OMN (Open Media Networking) project, an innovative initiative to revolutionize the landscape of media and communication. The project address the limitations and challenges posed by centralized social networks by developing an interconnected network that empowers people, fosters innovation, and promotes openness and decentralization.

What do you think about/Have you heard about project X? We are always interested in learning about other projects that aim to address similar challenges in the media landscape. Collaboration and cooperation are crucial in achieving the collective goal of creating a better internet and society.

Who are your competitors? While established networks like Facebook, Youtube, and Twitter are perceived as competitors, we view them as irrelevant, techshit to be composted. Cooperation partners are other decentralization efforts such as #ActivityPub etc. are also projects we aim to reach compatibility with.

How will you attract your first users? We plan to attract our first crew through various strategies, including leveraging the advantages of our system, collaborating with “content creators” and “influencers”, fostering change and linking, through leveraging our network of contacts.

Which programming language do you use? Our team has primarily engaged with the XXXX framework. However, we plan to explore existing open-source solutions in social networking to ensure compatibility with various technologies.

Who are potential users? Potential users of #OMN include social activists, frustrated users overwhelmed with managing multiple accounts, power users seeking greater control over their online presence, content creators and journalists, users with specific needs, decentralization enthusiasts, and anyone interested in an alternative to centralized networks.

How does #OMN make the internet more awesome? #OMN empowers people by offering them the freedom to choose their networks and applications freely, fostering fairness, promoting independent media, fostering creativity, and enhancing the peoples experience.

What are you building? We are building a new media experience that allows people to interact with different networks and applications seamlessly, offering greater flexibility and control over their society and local communertys.

Why do you want to bring micropayments to social media? Microgifts are essential for supporting community creators and networks, empowering people to support those they trust and enjoy with minimal effort.

What are the goals of #OMN? The goals of #OMN are to empower people and communertys, foster effectiveness in competition to #mainstreaming “common sense”, promote independent media, and enhance change and challenge in the communication space.

What does success look like? Success for #OMN includes the development of a working prototype, collaboration with various networks and applications, and widespread adoption of the #openweb “native” #OMN protocol and working practices as an internet/social standard.

What are the key deliverables of the prototyping phase? The key deliverables of the prototyping phase include the development of the #OMN #p2p client, User self-hosting, and Networks & Network Server prototypes, along with detailed documentation for developers and communertys.

Who will do the work? Our team, consisting of dedicated people committed to the vision of the #openweb, will primarily handle the work. With funding available, we plan to expand the team to expedite the prototyping phase.

What needs to be done now? We need funding support to commence the development of the prototype and advance the #OMN project to the next stage. This includes development, coordination, collaboration, and public outreach efforts.

How are you licensing any software or documentation you produce? We intend to make all our software openly available, encouraging collaboration and innovation in the open-source community.

How do you communicate publicly about your work? We communicate publicly through various channels, including videos, direct outreach to journalists and content creators, and engagement on media platforms like Mastodon and the #dotcons.

What do you hope to learn during the project? Throughout the project, we hope to learn about community project coordination, software collaboration, public outreach, software technologies, and other relevant fields, ultimately contributing to peoples growth and success.

What happens to #OMN if it does not get funded? If #OMN does not receive funding, we will continue our efforts to raise awareness and support for the project, confident in its value and potential impact on the communication landscape.

Thank you for considering our funding application for the #OMN project. We are excited about the opportunity to bring this “native” #openweb vision to life and look forward to the possibility of collaborating with you.

Digital waste – shouting into the void

Interesting links on “digital” waste https://gerrymcgovern.com/world-wide-waste/
https://volume.lboro.ac.uk/digital-waste-polluting-the-planet/
https://theconversation.com/dark-data-is-killing-the-planet-we-need-digital-decarbonisation-190423
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/15/power-grab-hidden-costs-of-ireland-datacentre-boom
https://digitaldecarb.org/

This is true. With the #OMN we are building tools for use, not for distraction, shouting into the void is not the project. Community, talking to community, is the core mission. The “personal” is not a part of our core project.

This is alien to #mainstreaming common sense in social tech. Politics as human not as other, we need the tools and the use to build the everyday of our lives #DIY

How to actually communicate this to the #mainstreaming is the challenge that is very hard to bridge. This is actually impossible, so agen our plan is to build it and communicate by doing, not by just talking.

We are looking for a crew to build and do,” talking” is the tool to create this crew #DIY it’s not the tool itself for change and challenge.

#OMN #4opens #OGB #makinghistory are shovels (tools) for social use.

A bit of history – visionontv

The Radical VisionOntv project has a rich and varied history spanning over a 15 years. Here’s a timeline highlighting some key milestones and achievements:

Inception: The project began over 15 years ago with a vision to create an alternative media platform that prioritized grassroots reporting and activism over mainstream narratives. It initially focused on utilizing RSS and peer-to-peer technologies to distribute video content widely.
Mainstream Social Networks: Despite the project’s focus on alternative media, it has also gained significant traction on mainstreaming #dotcons. With over 32 million video views across nine video streaming sites, including Undercurrents and Blip, VisionOntv has demonstrated its ability to reach diverse audiences.
Original Content Production: VisionOntv has produced over 1000 original video reports and studio shows, covering a wide range of topics and events in support of campaigning groups. This includes coverage of tech events, climate camps, and legal campaigns.
Training Workshops: The project has conducted nearly 100 free training workshops on grassroots video journalism, empowering people to become citizen journalists and contribute to the alternative media landscape.
Live Streaming: VisionOntv has facilitated live-streaming at conferences and events, providing real-time coverage and amplifying the voices of activists and organizers.
Technological Innovation: The project has been at the forefront of technological innovation, experimenting with solar-powered live edit TV shows at climate camps and embracing alternative hosting solutions to avoid reliance on mainstream platforms.
Community Engagement: VisionOntv has actively supported local campaigns, legal battles, and land reclamation efforts, amplifying the voices of marginalized communities and highlighting issues that are often overlooked by #mainstreaming media.
Partnerships and Collaborations: The project has collaborated with a diverse range of organizations and initiatives.

Through its commitment to openness, grassroots activism, and technological innovation, the Radical #VisionOntv project has made significant contributions to the alternative media landscape, empowering communities, challenging mainstream narratives, and fostering dialogue and collaboration across diverse social movements.

The #4opens framework provides a useful lens through which to evaluate and assess technology projects

The path we need to take in technology is social, rooted in the recognition that technology, at its core, is a tool created and used by humans to address social needs and challenges. While technological advancements have the potential to bring about benefits and progress, they also have the capacity to perpetuate existing inequalities, exacerbate social divides, and undermine democratic principles.

The #4opens framework provides a useful lens through which to evaluate and assess technology projects, particularly those within the realms of the #openweb and #dotcons. By emphasizing openness, transparency, collaboration, and decentralization, the #4opens offer a set of guiding principles that prioritize social utility and collective benefit over corporate profit or individual gain.

Why the social dimension of technology is crucial:

* Empowerment: Technology has the power to empower people and communities by providing access to information, resources, and opportunities. By focusing on the social utility of technology, we can ensure that it is designed and deployed in ways that promote inclusivity, participation, and empowerment for all.

* Equity and Justice: In a world characterized by systemic inequalities, technology can either reinforce existing power structures or serve as a tool for challenging and transforming them. By centering social considerations in tech development, we can work towards creating more equitable and just societies.

* Community Building: Technology has the potential to foster connections, collaboration, and community-building on a global scale. By prioritizing social utility, we can harness the power of technology to strengthen social bonds, facilitate dialogue, and mobilize collective action around shared goals and values.

* Sustainability: In an era of environmental crisis and resource depletion, it is essential to consider the social and environmental impacts of technology. By prioritizing sustainability and social responsibility in tech design and deployment, we can work towards creating systems and solutions that are environmentally sound and socially responsible.

The social dimension of technology is crucial because it determines how technology is designed, deployed, and used to address social needs and challenges. By embracing principles, we can ensure that technology serves the collective good and contributes to building a more sustainable future we need.

The problem with #openweb funding and the tools people use

#NGO Internet funding organizations often use #closedweb tools despite their stated commitment to openness and the Digital Commons. Some of these reasons highlight the contradictions:

* Familiarity and Convenience: Funding organizations and their staff are accustomed to using closed tools due to their prevalence in the industry. This is a non “native” aproch that seems natural to them.

* Security Concerns: Closed tools are perceived as more secure, especially when dealing with sensitive information and financial transactions. Funding organizations prioritize security over openness.

* Vendor Lock-In: Closed tools come bundled with proprietary services and platforms, leading to vendor lock-in. Once an organization becomes reliant on a particular closed tool, switching to open alternatives can be challenging and costly.

* Perceived Reliability: Closed tools are associated with established companies or brands who focues on a story of reliability and stability. Funding organizations feel more confident entrusting their operations to these tools, especially if they lack experience with open alternatives.

* Lack of Awareness: Despite their commitment to openness, funding organizations may not be aware of the availability or benefits of open tools. They may simply default to using closed tools out of habit or lack of knowledge about alternative options.

However, advocating for the use of open tools, such as #FOSS video streaming solutions and open collaboration platforms, aligns with the principles of openness and transparency promoted by funding organizations like #NGI. By encouraging the adoption of open tools at events and in everyday operations, organizations can demonstrate their commitment to fostering a more inclusive, accessible, and equitable #openweb.

We need to advocate for a more open-web native approach within the EU and beyond, ensuring that the internet remains a digital common that empowers people and promotes trust, collaboration, and innovation.

https://socialhub.activitypub.rocks/t/we-ask-that-ngi-use-native-approaches-and-tools-at-future-openweb-events/3728

Please share this thanks

The problem of fashionistas in activism

#fashionistas” typically describes individuals or groups who adopt trends or ideologies in activism, for the sake of appearance or to align themselves with what is currently popular or socially acceptable. In the realm of activism, this phenomenon often manifests in the behaviour of NGOs and advocacy organizations who prioritize “chasing the buzzword” over meaningful action.

The problem with “fashionistas” in activism, particularly among NGOs, is multifaceted:

* Superficial Engagement: NGOs adopt trendy causes or issues without any understanding or committing to them. This results in superficial engagement with complex social problems, leading to tokenistic gestures rather than substantive change.

* Lack of Authenticity: When prioritize appearing progressive or aligned with popular movements without commitment to the cause, it undermines trust and authenticity within the community.

* Mainstreaming: prioritize activism that is palatable to #mainstreaming audiences and funders, sacrificing radical or grassroots voices in the process. This mainstreaming tendency dilutes the effectiveness of activism and reinforces existing power structures.

* Misaligned Priorities: By chasing buzzwords or trends #fahernistas divert resources and attention away from pressing issues that are less visible or popular but more important. This can perpetuate injustice and inequality in actavist communities.

* Reactive Rather Than Proactive: #Fashionista activism is reactive, responding to the latest trend or crisis rather than addressing systemic issues in a sustained and strategic manner. This approach leads to short-term gains but fails to create lasting change.

* Rectonery: Adopting trends without a commitment to the underlying values or principles leads to performative activism or “rectonery” – actions that serve to maintain the status quo rather than challenging oppressive systems.

To address the problems associated with fashionista activism, it’s essential for NGOs and advocacy organizations to prioritize authenticity, long-term commitment, and meaningful engagement with the communities they are a part of. This involves centering the voices of active grassroots groups, challenging #mainstreaming narratives, and pursuing strategies that address root causes rather than superficial symptoms. By doing so, activists can work towards creating genuine, transformative change and challenge rather than simply following the latest trend.

User Story #makeinghistory

The “User Story #makeinghistory” outlines a process for digitizing the Campbell Family archive, which contains significant historical materials related to activism and political movements. Here’s a breakdown of the steps involved:

Setting up the Application: The archive sets up a desktop computer or a hosted VPS instance to install the #DAT based p2p application for “makeinghistory.”

Uploading Digital Files: They use the application to create an account and start uploading directories of digital files from the archive, adding basic metadata if possible.

Building a Community: The archive builds a community of users, including family members and wider activist groups, to seed an affinity group and encourage them to install the application on their devices.

Column Structure: Users see columns like “new” and “recent” along with others added by users working on the same accounts. These columns contain boolean logic lists of the data in the account.

Data Interaction: Users can interact with the data, adding metadata, information, and editing hashtags. They can swipe through items and modify data as needed.

Categorization: By editing hashtags and data, items move into category columns and into the recent columns.

Engagement: Users actively participate in categorizing content instead of passive scrolling. As others add metadata, it updates the feeds of other users, encouraging them to return and contribute.

Story Feature: Archived categorized metadata-enriched data flows are turned into cohesive narratives using the story feature, providing overviews and linking multiple items and categories.

Sharing History: The created histories can be shared with the wider world, providing grassroots quality history in addition to traditional top-down narratives.

Impact: People use these stories to inspire real and lasting social change, recognizing the importance of history in driving progress.

The “User Story – Resistance Exhibition” extends this concept to an exhibition setting, where visitors can participate in archiving and storytelling using a app installed at the exhibition. This creates a participatory space where people can engage with historical materials and contribute to ongoing projects. All data collected is public and available for use in other projects, emphasizing openness and collaboration.

Funding Proposal: Archiving the “Commons” with #MakingHistory and #OMN

Project Overview:
The #MakingHistory project, from the Open Media Network (#OMN), is a project to create a decentralized and community-driven archive of the “commons” – a collection of grassroots, activist, and historical material shared across a wide network of people and community groups and organisations. By leveraging the existing infrastructure and principles of the OMN, the project democratizes access to information and empowers people and communities to curate and preserve their shared heritage.

Key Objectives:

* Archiving Nodes: Establishing archiving nodes within the OMN network to enable people and communities to selectively archive hashtags and content of interest, providing a decentralized and distributed approach to content preservation.

* Lossy View: Implementing a “lossy” view feature that allows people to visualize what content is backed up across the network, enabling informed decisions on archiving priorities and focus areas.

* Collaboration with Institutions: Collaborating with institutions such as libraries, archive.org, universities, and other traditional archival entities to ensure structured backup and preservation of archived content in more formalized settings.

Project Implementation:
The implementation of the #MakingHistory project involves several key steps:

* Node Setup: Establishing archiving nodes, equipped with specialized templates for archiving and preserving content. These nodes allow people to contribute to the archive by selectively archiving hashtags and relevant content.

* Lossy View Feature: Developing a lossy view feature that provides users with insights into what content is backed up across the network. This feature will enable people to make informed decisions about their archiving efforts and prioritize content preservation based on community needs and interests.

* Collaborative Partnerships: Building partnerships with traditional archival institutions to ensure the long-term preservation and accessibility of archived content. These partnerships will involve sharing archived material and collaborating on preservation initiatives to ensure the sustainability of the archive.

Funding Needs:
To realize the objectives of the #MakingHistory project, funding support is required for:

* Technical Development: Hiring skilled developers to build and maintain the archiving code for nodes, lossy view feature, and other technical aspects of the project.

* Community Engagement: Conducting outreach and engagement efforts to onboard people and communities to the archiving nodes, as well as raising awareness about the project and its goals.

* Collaborative Partnerships: Establishing and maintaining partnerships with traditional archival institutions, including coordination efforts and resource sharing for long-term preservation.

Impact: By supporting the #MakingHistory project, funders will contribute to the creation of a decentralized and community-driven archive of grassroots, activist, and historical material, preserving the collective heritage of diverse communities. The project aim is to democratize access to information, empower people and communities to curate and preserve their shared history, and foster collaboration between grassroots initiatives and traditional archival institutions.

Conclusion: The #MakingHistory project represents a pivotal opportunity to democratize archiving and empower communities to preserve their shared heritage in a decentralized and collaborative manner. With your support, we can realize this vision and build a resilient and inclusive archive that celebrates the diversity and richness of our collective history. Thank you for considering our funding proposal.

Funding Application: Building the Open Media Network

Funding Application: Building the Open Media Network

Project Overview: The Open Media Network (#OMN) is an innovative project aiming to construct a trust-based, human-moderated, and decentralized database shared across multiple peers, encompassing both peer-to-peer (p2p) and server-based architecture. OMN is centred around the #4opens principles, emphasizing openness, transparency, collaboration, and decentralized control. The project’s primary focus in using technology to empower human networks and foster community-driven content curation and dissemination.

Key Functions: OMN boasts five primary functions:

Publish: Users can easily publish various types of content, including text, images, and links, to a stream of objects.
Subscribe: Users have the ability to subscribe to streams of objects from people, organizations, pages, groups, hashtags, and more, enabling custom content flows.
Moderate: The platform integrates moderation tools from the #Fediverse, allowing users to express their preferences (e.g., like/dislike) on streams or objects, as well as provide comments.
Rollback: Users, admins can remove untrusted historical content from their flow or instance database by publishing flow/source/tag, ensuring the integrity of the content.
Edit: Users have the flexibility to edit the metadata of objects and streams across various sites, instances, or apps where they have login credentials.

Project Scope: The back-end infrastructure of OMN serves as the foundation for constructing a #DIY, trust-based, grassroots semantic web. The technology, affectionately referred to as the #WitchesCauldron, is designed to facilitate decentralized publishing, content aggregation, curation, and distribution while prioritizing user trust and community building. The front-end applications of OMN are diverse and adaptable, ranging from regional/city/subject-based #indymedia sites to distributed archiving projects like #makeinghistory.

Funding Needs: To realize the vision of the Open Media Network, we require funding support to cover essential expenses such as:

Development: Hiring skilled developers to build and refine the back-end infrastructure and associated tools, ensuring robustness, stability, and interoperability.
Moderation Tools: Integrating advanced moderation tools from the Fediverse to enhance user experience and promote healthy content flows.
Community Engagement: Facilitating community outreach and engagement efforts to onboard users, gather feedback, and foster a vibrant and inclusive user community.
Infrastructure: Investing in server infrastructure and maintenance to support the decentralized nature of the OMN platform and ensure reliable performance as the project rolls out.
Documentation and Training: Creating comprehensive documentation and providing training resources to empower people to effectively navigate and utilize the OMN network.

Impact: By supporting the Open Media Network, funders will contribute to the development of a groundbreaking platform that empowers people to take control of their lives and digital experiences, participate in meaningful content creation and curation, and build vibrant and resilient grassroots communities. OMN aims to democratize access to information and facilitate decentralized communication, fostering a more #4opens, transparent, and equitable digital ecosystem.

Conclusion: The Open Media Network represents a real opportunity to revolutionize content distribution and community engagement in the digital age. With your support, we can bring this visionary project to life, empowering people and communities to reclaim power over their online experiences and build a more inclusive, democratic, and sustainable people based future. Join us in building the future of media and communication with the Open Media Network.

Thank you for considering our funding application.

The #geekproblem is a part of our collective #deathcult

There is a value miss match that is a core part of the #geekproblem and its relationship to “normal” society. One side prioritises the tech, the other the social, they then ignore each other. Both suffer and become pointless, or likely die out as a species in the era of #climatechaos. Build a bridge or be pointless, or more likely dead in the long term. #OMN #indymediaback #makeinghistory #OGB are bridges.

The recognition and resolution of the value mismatch between technology and society are crucial for addressing pressing global challenges such as #climatechaos. The #geekproblem encapsulates this divide, where one side prioritizes technological development while the other prioritizes social considerations. However, both perspectives are essential for meaningful progress. By building bridges between technology and society, initiatives like #OMN, #indymediaback, and #OGB serve as vital connectors that facilitate collaboration and mutual understanding. These projects recognize that addressing complex issues requires interdisciplinary approaches that integrate technological innovation. By bridging the gap between technology and society, these initiatives pave the way for holistic solutions that can effectively tackle the challenges of our time, ultimately contributing to a more sustainable and equitable future. Failure to build such bridges risks rendering both perspectives ineffective or irrelevant, potentially leading to dire consequences for humanity in the long term. Therefore, the importance of initiatives like #OMN, #indymediaback, and #OGB cannot be overstated, as they play a role in bridging the gap between technology and society and advancing collective efforts towards a better future.

We need to get this 20-year-old project back online, please help

VisionOnTV is a historical and important activist video project, and supporting it through funding can have a impact on the activist community and the history and change challenge in broader society:

Amplifying Marginalized Voices: VisionOnTV provides a platform for marginalized voices and grassroots activists to share their stories, perspectives, and struggles. By amplifying these voices, the project helps to challenge dominant narratives and promote inclusive and diverse media. Funding VisionOnTV enables the continued production and dissemination of content that may not find space in #mainstreaming media outlets.
Documenting Social Movements: VisionOnTV plays a real role in documenting social movements, protests, and activism from around the world. Through its video coverage, the project captures important moments of resistance, solidarity, and social change, preserving them for future generations. Funding VisionOnTV supports the ongoing documentation of grassroots movements and ensures that their stories are heard and remembered.
Fostering Media Literacy: VisionOnTV contributes to media literacy by providing alternative perspectives and critical analysis of mainstream media coverage. By offering people and communities access to independent and alternative media content, the project encourages critical thinking and engagement with complex social issues. Funding VisionOnTV enables the creation of educational resources and programming that promote media literacy and empower viewers to become informed citizens.
Building Solidarity Networks: VisionOnTV facilitates connections and solidarity networks among activists and social movements. Bridging different struggles and communities, fostering collaboration and mutual support. Funding VisionOnTV supports the development of networking tools and initiatives that strengthen solidarity across geographical and ideological boundaries.
Advancing Social Justice: VisionOnTV contributes to the advancement of social justice by raising awareness about pressing issues such as inequality, environmental destruction, racism, and human rights abuses. By highlighting the voices of those most affected by systemic injustices, the project mobilizes support for positive change and collective action. Funding VisionOnTV empowers activists to continue their historical work for social justice through the power of video storytelling.

In summary, funding #VisionOnTV is a strategic investment in the advancement of activism, social justice, and media democracy. By supporting this project, funders can help to amplify voices, document social movements, foster media literacy, build solidarity networks, and advance the cause of social justice around the world.

Talking about p2p as a tool to use today.

A. what is happing with protacols:

* The #nostr crew are the children of #web3 mess, they are a bit reformed, let’s see.
* Then the #BlueSky are the reformed children of the #dotcons
* The #fediverse is the child of the #openweb
* #dat is a child of the #geekproblem if it is reformed or not, you can maybe tell me?
* #SSB was a wild child, now sickly/lonely with the #fahernable kids gathering round #nostr
* #p2p was the poster child of the era of the #openweb it was caught in the quicksand of legal issues, the shadow that was left was eclipsed by “free to use” #dotcons Now finds it hard to come back due to mobile devices not having an IP address, thus most people not actually able to use p2p reliably.

Q. ssb has technical shortcomings. It cant sparsly replicate data and verify it. It needs to download all data ever created by a user to verify, which makes it infeasible for many use cases. The main underlying data format is also hard to fix and leads to performance bottlenecks. The main founder moved on and it seems most ssb people are also looking for a new home.
dat’s time has not yet started as it approached things from a much more fundamental perspective. The initial vision was “git for any kind of data”, which means “version control for any kind of data” (peer to peer). The stack only now reached maturity to build proper tools on top of it. You have the dat-ecosystem with 2-3 dozen projects.
You have the holepunch/pears project which built a phnomenal “never on a server” desktop/mobile p2p video conferencing messenger with built in file sharing.
The app works flawless on mobile and is called https://keet.io
Also https://dat-ecosystem.org just now released it’s new website.
The https://pears.com runtime will be live in 5 days from now on the 14th of February for anyone to start hacking on p2p apps and some time later, the plan is to integrate it into the dat-ecosystem website, so anyone can start using p2p from within dat-cosystem page (which is an open source static website anyone can fork to get to the same) …no backends required.
pears 🍐will only start working on the 14th of february. You can set a reminder.
The revolution starts then 🙂

A. will have a look, there are a few new #p2p projects reaching use at mo – the issue is none of them link to each other and likely thus non interop. This is the #geekproblem

Q. I don’t think there are any mature projects out there other than dat and ipfs. The former made by open source devs, self funded with a bit of help from public funding bodies, while the latter is the poster child of venture capitalists and got gazillions from investors. It’s the “big tech” of p2p.
Then you have a few less general purpose p2p projects which popped into existence in the last few years, but both dat and ipfs go back all the way to 2013 and it takes a lot to get things smooth and stable and support all use cases and get enough critical adoption and nodes to make the p2p network work.
That is why dat-ecosystem has a lot of existing projects that work and why it is reliable to build on top of it.
I do think the new more recent p2p projects in research state might become mature as well, but it will easily take them a few more years.
Many of those newer projects have people working on them part time only or focus on really special use cases and only time will tell if their approaches will bring something new to the table or not.
2024 will definitely be the year of dat, especially after February 14th, when pears.com goes live. This has been years in the making.
What started 2013 as (git for data) will now finally become it’s own independent p2p runtime. Goodbye nodejs & co. …and soon goodbye github & npm 🙂

A. https://holepunch.to/ its a very sparse website with no company info or #4opens process – it looks and feels like meany #dotcons if these projects do not link to each other or interop then they will fail like the hundreds I have seen fail over the last 20 years of this mess making. it’s a problem we can’t keep doing this shit, but we do. #4opens is a shovel to help compost this, can you do a write-up for these projects please.

Q. dat-ecosystem is a 501c3
It’s Code for Science and Society
And it is https://opencollective.com/dat
And it is governed by a Manifesto.
It is all on the website next to the “Info” button in the upper left corner.
If you mean pears.com ….that will change on February 14th
I didn’t mention holepunch.
Holepunch is just one of the many dat-ecosystem projects.
It is special, because one of the core developers of dat started it after he got a lot of funding and is currently maintaining many of the important code that powers dat and the dat-ecosystem projects.
But it doesn’t matter too much. The stack is open source under MIT and Apache 2.0 License for anyone to use. If holepunch would ever decide to stop maintaining the stack (which we do not think), dat-ecosystem can find other maintainers.

A. they are the owners of https://keet.io always look for ownership in #dotcons 🙂 a few of the ones I have been looking at over the last few years https://www.eff.org/deep…/2023/12/meet-spritely-and-veilid and the was a another one funded by NLNET they recently whent live, but can’t find the link. None of them link or interop, not even bridges. This is the #geekproblem

Q. Spritely is a great project.
It embraces the ocap security model (Object Capabilities).
It does apply it in lisp/scheme, which is a great fit with GNU Guix.
Their foundation is led by Randy Farmer.
Randy Farmer co-created Habitat with Chip Morningstar (an MMORPG) in the 1980s.
Chip Morningstar works with Mark Miller (Mentor of Christine Lemmer Webber).
Their project is called “Agoric”, which is a blockchain projcet funded by Salesforce.
They have their own Token and build a “Market Place”.
They as well work with ocap security model (but in JavaScript).
The JavaScript ocap version is what is known as SES and Endojs.
They regularly talk to make sure things are interoperable.
Ocap security is also what dat-ecosystem is embracing to pair it with peer to peer and bring it to the post-web. A version of the web not dominated anymore by big tech and big standard bodies.

Veilid is a young and interetsing project as well with a focus on anonymity over performance. This is a great use case that needs support, but dat was always about performance and any size of data and anonymity and privacy at all costs.
I’m not saying that is an unimportant use case, but there are plenty of solutions for extreme cases where anonymity and privacy are at utmost importance.
What is vastly more important imho is to have a p2p technolgy able to replace mainstream big tech services such as youtube, facebook, instagram, tiktok, google & co. because it won’t help us if we have a special niche technology that cant actually tackle big tech and surveillance capitalism but gives people some way to hide from it. …we need it too, but we also need a foundation on which to actually outcompete big tech imho.

Keet is a closed source peer to peer messenger & video conferencing app (might be open source in the future) and it is built on top of the dat stack.
The dat stack is very modular and in it’s core consists of a few main modules.
– hypercore, hyprebee & hyperdrive
– hyperdht & hyperswarm
– autobase
Those modules are maintained by holepunch, an organisation started by one of the core dat developers afte rreceiving a lot of funding to develop keet and now the pear runtime, which will be open source and public under https://pears.com after February 14th 2024 (Valentine’s Day ❤)
Keet itself is one of many apps, all part of the dat-ecosystem.
Most projects are open source, but not all, but they are all built on top of the MIT/Apache licenses p2p stack, which started as `dat` in 2013 and matured many years ago. The stack is battle tested and really works.
Of course – we all want everything open source and one day we might find a model, but if some closed source apps help bring in funding, it benefits the open source core.
Basically, you can think of “keet” as some fancy UI/UX on top of the open source software stack. Now sure – would be sweet if the UI/UX was open source as well, but then again, it’s not essential and until we transition into fully automated luxury Communism or whatever else works, something pays the bills and enables the open source core to be maintained 🙂
At least it works without any “Cloud Landlords”.
No servers, never on a server. No more cloud lords, a.k.a. Big Tech or #dotcons

A. The best we have currently is #ActivityPub DIY federated – this is community based (but fails in code to actually be this) which in meany ways is complemtery to #p2p based approaches – they are better together and if the can bridge or interop this is MUCH better, the #OMN is native to this.

Q. Yes. dat is very low level.
It would be cool to see somebody implement an activity pub based tool on top of it.
One dat-ecosystem project did it for nostr, but no activity pub yet.
I’m personally more interested into a desktop, terminal, version controlled data and software packages. “Social” tools are just one type of tools to built on top of the more fundamental p2p network and p2p system infrastructure.
I do think dat is good for laying these foundations, but “social” tools are a layer that dat as a stack will probably never focus on, but instead dat-ecosystem projects will hopefully take on that challenge 🙂

A. Some people are community based federated (the start of this conversation) others are individual, the #p2p world you talk about. This is not a fight they are both valid. As you say what we don’t won’t is more #dotcons 🙂 Good conversation on the state of #p2p I used to be much more involved in this side, but it failed with the move to #dotcons so got re-engaged when ActivityPub came alone the rebooting of web 1.5 😉 are you happy for me to copy this to my blog, can credit you or just use AQ anonymous format?

Q. any way you want. I dont think p2p has failed.
the p2p of the past was naive kids playing and it took a decade of adults and all the law enforcement they had at their disposal to bring it down and despite that torrents still run and even the piratebay continues to operate, although heavily censored.
Back then it was a few devs and a majority of users.
This time p2p is back and will enter mainstream open source developers after February 14th 2024 (5 days now).
This empowers an entire generation and anyone who wants to dive into p2p to build any kind of tool.
What was once hard and reserved to a few will be available to everyone.
We might see another nodejs/npm movement.
It loads a bit slow, but load this and check “all time”
This is the largest open source ecosystem humanity has ever experienced. http://www.modulecounts.com/
And while npm/github have been hijacked by microsoft, we will claw it all back soon
Btw. regarding Spritely and the backstory behind OCap, even though extremely technical in description, here is a summary of the work by Mark Miller et. al.
https://erights.org/history/index.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_S._Miller
> Miller has returned to this issue repeatedly since the Agoric Open Systems Papers from 1988
Mark Miller is Christine Lemmer Webbers Mentor.
He works with Chip Morningstar (who with Randy Farmer did Habitat in the 80s)
Randy Farmer is Executive Director of the Spritely Institute.
Agoric is the Cosmos Framework based Blockchain now.
https://agoric.com/team

A. Interesting to look back at all this stuff, reminds me I had dinner with https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ted_Nelson in Oxford 20 years ago, he was a little excentric with a clip on digital recording device, every convention had to be record. good to catch up with history https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-t405_JAJA that is more relevant today.

Q. Yes – peer to peer is hard. Not as a user, it is actually easy enough, but as a developer. Building p2p is not taught anywhere and there aren’t online learning resources the same way you can learn how to set up your react app, etc…
This will change after February 14th 2024 when the pears.com runtime is released. It is powered by the same p2p stack that developed with dat since 2013.
If anyone of you is a developer or has friends who are, you are all invited to dip your toes into the dat water 😛 …and start a new p2p project and join the dat-ecosystem 🙂 It will get quite easy in 4 days from now and it will again get a lot easier in the coming weeks when more examples and docs are publishes and others build as well.
The Storyline around Mark Miller, Randy Farmer & Chip Morningstar is totally separate from it, but it is also important, because it is what powers
1. the Spritely project and Christine Lemmer Webber
2. the Agoric Blockchain Project backed by Salesforce
3. the Ethereum Metamask Wallet and Co.
It also influences the big standards bodies and I see it two fold.
It’s a story about philosophy, values and vision driven by the specific people in it.
It is also a story about “object capabilities” which is a powerful perspective on security and will enable and inform a lot of p2p interaction which without would require some sort of centralized servers, but with ocap can do it on it’s own p2p

A littly edited coverstaion between Hamish Campbell (A) and Alexander Praetorius (Q)