The is such a thing as society

“The is such a thing as society” we need to build our tools for this anti “common sense” statement.

The advantage of “governance” of the #fediverse (which it needs if it is to become a part of our #openweb based society that is essential for social change/challenge in the era of #climatechaos) is that the is non, this is a good thing.

The Fediverse comes from the “cats” of #libertarianism and to a lesser extent #anarchism without the (O)

In this, we don’t HAVE to think how it fits into current working practices and current economics. Rather, people PUSHING these “common sense” solutions to the fediverse “governance” problems are a part of the problem, not a solution that might work.

To be “native” to the fediverse we need to use code to build “society”. Organizing for SocialHub Community Empowerment has to be anti “common sense” as the fediverse itself is.

Power comes from power, It’s something you TAKE/build and in the best outcome share, it is NEVER given to you.

Private property – Wikipedia was invented in a mythical past when someone with a big club drew a line in the sand and said to the social group step over that, and I kill you.

Notice this is not the foundation of the fediverse, we are base on an open flowing social web and our lines in the sand are “blowing in the wind”. Yes, lots of people do not understand this.

Don’t unthinkingly push current “common sense” #deathcult ist thinking over #openweb projects.

Getting reliable mobile broadband – on a boat

This is a draft, will do a video soon’sish

Trying to work through the maze of wireless/mobile broadband is way to complex, after a few weeks work here is my thoughts.

You need to look at a sight like this to find out where to mount your antenna or moor your boat cellmapper

Then there are some background links that I found to be useful. Best DC Powered 4G and 5G Routers How To Choose A 4G LTE Antenna How To Set Up a 4G LTE Antenna for Best Performance

Really good questions, let’s try and address some issues.

The need for “governance” came out of a practical problem, the #activitypub community is made up of “cats” you know the slogan “herding cats” we were doing seminars outreach to powerful EU Eurocrats on why they should be interested in #activertypub and interesting they really are interested. We had no voice, only “cats” with everyone pushing their own tiny projects, it was a lot of work and stress, but we got the presentations done.

Back to the questions. A lot of the issues you are outlining are actually covered outside what is normally though of as process – It’s designed to be messy, it’s not designed to be tidy. Let’s illustrate this by answering each point.

Yep, they do, but they are subject to “recall”, and gain a lot from working with the “groups” the voices only get TOTAL power with consensus -1 which is a hard thing to acheave without the first working to building consensus through the body and groups and other voices.

You are right the is no sense checking in the formal sense, but remember the is no hard power, people only have to do things if they want to, its “governance” of a disorganization not a traditional power structer. if people get too “nutty” the is the power of “recall” if the body becomes to nutty the is the power of “dilution” more people can join the body.

The groups don’t have to talk to anyone, though will work better when they do, the voices can be involved or not worked better when they are – good to remember the “cats” at the beginning on this one.

The is no statute and no laws as this is “governance” with equation marks – there will be a growing body of mythos and traditions that people can call on when making decisions. There are no police or courts, nobody has to do anything – “cats”.

The body has negative power over the voices, it can recall them, which is the same as not signing off on their actions. The problem we are trying to solve is focus in a anarchistic/libertarian movement – how to talk to traditional burocraceys while still talking/being relevant to ourselves. The is a level of trust involved which is held in place by the #4opens

That’s a good question, that is not defined. It’s important to look at the codebase here, everything we talk about is the “default” the actual codebase can redefine just about every variable, it’s a set of tools for horazonatlish “governance” It’s up to the body to decide everything on how to use these tools if they change the default.

We have the traditional voting modals, we have a threshold etc.

The body can be restricted in size by fixing the first variable in this case it would be the instances/stakeholders or can be left to grow organically this is up to the body itself.

The group is made up of anybody in the body who needs to be a part of it – in this everything is a mirror of the same process #KISS You ask a hard question about “outside” experts/original submitter which i don’t have an easy solution to – so we would add it as an option that can be turned on or off.

They serve the same as the body, currently have two options 1 year, half every 6 month rolling to facilitate hand holding or easy/simple one year.

Due to the sortation and work load you will likely have a high turn over of new body members, the “recalling” will add to this as there are a lot of “nutters” sortation will bring up fresh people for the body to work :wink: this is a good thing as “trust” is built from this.

The voices are “trusted” to be a voice of the fedivers for their term, if they are not “trusted” they will be recalled to the body, and if they are nutters they will be recalled out of the body and a new member added ect.

Yep decisions can be made at different levels, on the image the thickness of the arrow coming out (with the blunt end) is the strength of that voice.

The group says it shite, and then move on, if the group keeps pushing shit then the voices ignore this group and in the end the body likely recalls it and replaces it with a new group – this is up to the body/voices.

Yes, sadly some good decisions that are not popular inside/outside the body/groups will be ignored we are still self “governing” cats the is no getting away from this.

Yep, based on the #4opens so everything is done with activertypub in open process, its a trust based network, if people won’t privacy then they can resign/not sign up from public governance and work through people who are happy to do open process.

Whistleblowering is a case for media not “governance” so is dealt with in this sister project Home – Open-Media-Network – Gitea: Open Media Network

Thank you for the interesting questions.

What you do with it is more importent than what it is.

Q. Hold that thought… #BrightGreenLies #PlanetoftheHumans
A. I like my solar panels and wind turbine, but not because they are inherently green, rather they let me live a small impact off grid existence on #boatingeurope the key is changing your energy use

Fluff/spiky debate and the respect for diversity of tactics – talking to the coop tech crew

I’ve changed the title of this thread as it seems to have drifted away from its original topic (and my apologies for the poor choice of original name).

The changing of title is telling for what we are talking about here “Fluffy” vs “Spiky” is the perfect example of the problem.

Fluff/spiky debate and the respect for diversity of tactics is the bedrock of affective activism that social change/challenge is built from. Yes the coop movement is well on the fluffy side, in this it can complement the more spiky side and should play a role, no matter how limited this is.

An example of this history would be the Greenham marches who often stopped overnight in Quaker halls and were feed by cooperative businesses. These marchers then went on to tear the fence down on the nuclear missile base as a protest agenst the Cold War escalation.

I made a film about this, that varies coops sponsored

To highlight meany activist have strong connections/come from the coop movement

Meany of these angles come from a worker coop.

Meany coops have been supporting this protest for more than 30 years.

This action came from the community that meany of you are likely to be connected to.

A workers coop.

OK if you guy are going to demolish the foundations (“Fluffy” vs “Spiky”) I will leave you to do this, there is much to do, and few people actually doing. The “governance” project is an attempt to expand this tiny group

Sorry for the slight rambalyness – mess

Am using “mess” in a positivize and a negative sense – this is a bit confusing maybe.
In the pro mess sense, it’s a celebrating of human creativity and diversity, this is messy and it’s not a problem, it’s a solution.
In the negative sense its agenst the NGO crew who won’t everything to be in order
Of course the is a 3ed veritable – who the mess works for – this is mostly unspoken – it’s an idealogical view, pick the one you like. We are pushing anarchy in the messy sense of “from chaos comes order” it’s up to the people to make “order” from their local mess – we scale this vie federation with the codebase.
The #deathcult ists like mess see the is an example.
Looking at mess as something very human that we need in moderation so we can choose to create “order” without this mess we can’t be truly human.

NFT – The whole thing is a scam

A. We have to stop our #fashionista falling for this #encryptionist crap
NFTs are actually a terrible way to support artists. Most artists don’t break even on NFTs. The only people you are supporting are greedy pyramid scheme salesmen, and unnecessarily acidifying the oceans.

Q. what are your sources that suggest most artists don’t break even on NFTs. That sounds like a dubious claim.

A. There are a ton of link on this…/how-much-it-actually-cost-to-sell… How Much It Actually Cost to Sell an NFT.

Q. interesting, but that doesn’t suggest most artists break even, that just seems like a lesson learned about that particular author’s experience. Costs that people unfamiliar with the platform need to consider before trying to mint an NFT with that particular platform.
None of those things are inherent to NFT as a technology, and is just related to that very specific way of doing it, and it’s not the only way.

A. do a search the money reflects the electrical power to do the transaction and to a less extent the cost of the system hardware. It’s a complete catastrophe, whatever way you look at it. And don’t believe the hype about version 02 as that is based on hundreds of thousands of hard rives spinning pointlessly. The whole thing is a scam.

Q&A on outreaching the fluffy/spiky debate to the fluffys

Have been working with bridging this often hostile divide for more than 30 years in hundreds of campaigns on the ground and online. The best outcome you can hope for is “diversity of tactics/strategy”

It’s a miracle when the two sides can hold this bridge in place, the effect of this miracle is more powerful outcome for both agenders BUT the longer this bridge is held in place the stronger the internal and outside forces push to demolish it – it falls, have never seen a bridge hold for the whole campaign.

The #mainstreaming agender always supports the #fluffy aproch and pushes down the #spiky aproch so its less a question of right/wrong more a question of holding the balance agenst this #mainstreaming pushing. The balance is where maximum power lies. So yes in this forum, and in general, the “spiky” aproch has more “power” than the fluffy aproch simple because its is repressed by the mainstream and meany of the “common sense” fluffy crew.

The “debate” is in this case is a metaphor for action, it’s important to keep both approaches working and hold a bridge in place, so people can cross and communicate between them.

In tech outreach work using the hashtag #geekproblem to highlight the “need for control” that is a clear block and not a solution to the very human mess we are in. We need to build structers/code where we “lose” control of our current #mainstreaming agenders and take “control” by building bridges and holding these human bridges in place, so we can choose different paths.

The project for “governance” i brought here in the first post is a “spiky” aproch to this outcome FAQ link

Yep, best to build tools/process from “lived expirence”. We are swimming in a river of social shit with the #mainstreaming of neo-liberalism and postmodernism that is the bases of “thinking”. Thou these ideology died years ago, the zombies of both are still eating our social brains.

You guys experienced it here, when I came to this well “fluffy” space I was met with a well “spiky” reception. The more dogmatic liberals can often be VERY spiky were the #fahernista radicals are generally kinda “fluffy” in their actual outcomes. Lifting the lid and look at the actions, don’t take what people say at face value, to see the fluffy/spiky debate in action, by lifting this lid you start to build a bridge…

Putting and holding this bridge in place is the start of power for social change/challenge.

I came here because you guys have useful skills to help build the tools we need Online governance – openwebgovernancebody – Gitea: Open Media Network

Misunderstanding – Out reaching the #OMN #openweb projects.

I start to understand the misunderstanding, blocking many of the people outreaching the #OMN. It’s a DIY project there is the assumption that people will see the need and fill in the missing bits. The “missing bits” have a function, to be filled in otherwise we would be pushing clean non-messy #dotcons world view which is a very different project.

Maybe this is hard to see, but we would be doing something utterly pointless if it is not messy. So people pushing clean are not helping, rather they are #BLOCKING

Must stress the utterly pointless here, as people have done slick/controlled alts many times over the last 30 years and in the medium term this has always proven to be pointless.

It’s a world view problem that’s going to kill us, well lots of us.


Meany people reply to outreach by telling the #dotcons story as if it were common sense… where the outreach is telling DIY, so communication is missing/past each other.

The #OMN is offering tools, people are generally looking for shiny toys a different world view. From the DIY prospective shiny toys are just rubbish to add to the landfill were tools you can build a new world if you are motivated and have care and focus.

To put this bluntly, its #DIY or death as #XR says in the streets. Hope this #KISS aproch helps to build a bridge – up to you guys to hold this bridge in place.

#OMN projects are tools for YOU to change/challenge the world we live/die in.

We live in a world full of monsters dressed in fluffy clothes

Monsters, scratch our fluff crew, and they turn spiky, repression is a universal human problem to be mediated. The subject of the fluffy/spiky debate – respect for diversity and the desire for debate based on this respect is a core outcome. We need to build bridges.

That is clearly passive-aggressive.

You feeling discomfort… did you read the links and think about what I was expressing or did you stop at the “discomfort”?

Yep, talk about what people bring here, engage, think…

” A. I find it interesting, and revealing, that nobody here actually talked about what the thried was about Online governance – openwebgovernancebody – Gitea: Open Media Network


Good place to start from.

In the 1990’s anti-road moment that grew into the early 2000’s anti-capitalist/antiglobalisation movements. This time solved meany issues in activism/grassroots outcomes. One of these was a way of mediating the blocking of communication we have here. They called it the “fluffy/spiky debate”, note you will only find mentions of this as we are crap at keeping our own history, lets not start a conversation on “our” academics and the crap they feed :wink:

  • fluffy is what we have here – lets all get on and be nice to each other.
  • Spiky is we have in meany affective activist groups, it’s a mess lets use the tools we have to make the mess less nasty, this will be messy.

The most important part is the “debate” which leads to a VERY HARD idea “diversity of tactics” on the ground and online. The quote above is a small step to this.

A fluffy view of governance Kees Boeke – Wikipedia

A spiky view of governance Online governance – openwebgovernancebody – Gitea: Open Media Network

Both have value, BUT one has more value for existing society than the other as it’s deigned to work in a mess. The other is fine for “calming” situations for small “inward” looking groups

In the era of #climatechaos and the #mainstreaming swing to the right-wing we need to build and maintain bridges that keep respect for the “fluffy/spiky debate” in place.

And most importantly these process need to work in mess.

What do you think?


Remember I have met some of these people. What do you think I should do with these guys, they hid posts 6 times, they permanently removed one post,

They pushed Ad hominem – Wikipedia attacks in meany replys, not just ones.

FINALLY, one of them likely reads some links and posts something that has relevance to what am talking about, and I reply to this very late first step and SILENCE.

Don’t blame them, this is kinda normal, but this takes the fluffy outa fluffy and shows the spiky that is always a part of activism.

As I say this is normal for this group of people

What to do with them?