Tag: mainstreaming

Dig, plant, grow. Compost the #techshit, repeat.

Q. We need to be honest about this

A. I joined here only recently to experiment with the Fediverse, and that’s my first impression too. The two hottest kinds of topic I found were meta discussions such as “Twitter users will come here now”, and “the system is fucking with us using vaccines”.

Q. we build at Alt but will people come, some will. Moving away from the #dotcons it’s a tiny step we need to do more, MUCH more #OMN

A. people use the mainstream media because there they can find the information they want, their friends, and have a pleasant experience with highly usable tools. Only a very small group of people would use a privacy-oriented social media with complexities such as a federated network just because “fuck the system”. Even a nerd with the obsession for cybersecurity and privacy like me has an hard time finding interesting stuff here. And, believe me, I’m trying.

Q. this is an excellent question to ansear.

There are two points:

Firstly, we had exalent outreach alt media around for 20 years, #indymediaback is an example project that we need coders to help reboot.

Secondly, to think that we/you have any chance of grassroots progressive social change challenge without working alt media is a fatal fantasy. We can clearly see this in the mess of the last ten years.

We have the codeing tools #activitypub, and we have the historical social models that we know used to work, but had scaling issues.

The #OMN plan is simple, bring the new working technical scaling to the old working social models/process

As you say the fedivers made up of copies of #dotcons is too small a step.. We have to take the next step if we have any seruse ideas about change/challenge of the current #mainstreaming #deathcult

We have to change, challenge our social ideas and social process in what is left of the #openweb

This is less fundermentalist than it sounds as open-source (free softer) development already works mostly so the change being pushed by the #OMN is #nothingnew

This should be easy, but #BLOCKING has obviously to be overcome, dig, plant, grow. Compost the #techshit, repeat. One good first step is to be honest about our own funding.

A. being “alternative” is not a strong selling point because you define yourself relatively to something else instead of having your own identity. This dooms you to be always in the shadow of “the mainstream” as a sort of second choice.

Q. Being alternative USED to have a strong identity as did #openweb and yes you are right they DO NOT have this any more, this is a problem we should change challenge not except as “common sense”.

Think before replying as this conversation is more about agreeing then division, focus is good.

Doing the same thing in the same context and expecting different results is one of the clinical definitions of insanity

Q. Doing the same thing in the same context and expecting different results is one of the clinical definitions of insanity. 😀

A. That is EXACTLY the #mainstreaming problem the #hashtages are about, well said. If it’s not different, it’s not working #nothingnew

WE have solved this problem in the past but have not had a way to scale these solutions, now we have a technological way of scaling but have lost the “working activist culture” to social use with the technological scaling.

This is the story and the path, let’s get biblical.

#OMN

Talking about storys and #stupidindividualism

Q. One difficulty that I personally have with your communication methods is your use of hashtags that convey meaning to the people that already know and use them, but are opaque to someone who doesn’t know what they mean.

You end up being only able to communicate with people within your own filter bubble.

What are the ranges of different patterns of communication that you have tried?

Which ones worked more effectively with which audiences?

A. As we talked about before, the #hashtags are a collective social story, but what is obvious is that if there is no collective there is no story… So if you want the story, build the collective to tell the story.

Bit of a chicken and egg issue, ay.

It’s non #mainstreaming change challenge… If nothing changes there is no challenge, thus it’s completely up to “us” not “me” am doing my “modernist” story, as you say if we all do different story’s the is no outcome.

Someone at some point has to add to the story, retell it, shape it and use it for change challenge.

I repeat, I have done my bit, been at the front line of this social story for 40 years and am now sailing off on my lifeboat.

What are “we” doing with this story, that has passed through “my” hands

Anyone can pick up the power of the story or let it fall as sand as we currently do.

Remember you would have to be completely #stupidindividualism to only see this as “my” story, it’s obviously not 🙂

#nothingnew

People BLOCKING the needed process, or more normally simply ignore it.

If you keep doing the same thing, there will be the same outcome. Different world views have different process and sometimes different outcomes.

All the #OMN projects are based on a different world view that we know can work to build “society” with scaling limitations and combining this with using #openweb tech that we know can scale.

The problem we face is communicating this to people who have NO knolage of either of these things or ONLY knolage of one of these things.

When they have no knolage of this subculture that all our civil rights are based on, they apply their all-knowing #mainstreaming “common sense” to BLOCK the needed process and codeing, or more normally simply ignore it.

Ideas?

#mainstreaming is obviously a #deathcult we do need to keep saying this

#mainstreaming is obviously a #deathcult we do need to keep saying this. There are well document alt’s that I push with every use of the hashtags #OGB #OMN #4opens etc. The problem we way too often face is people wanking liberal “common sense” in the era of the #deathcult so need to make this point forcefully.For our liberals (of every type) this comes across as toxic positively if they can see the positive side at all. When they don’t I call this #BLOCKING and often get blocked for doing so.

Compost and shit comes to mind, shit is good compost, so this is NOT actually a negative statement, it’s part of the story, in radical grassroots direct action you need to go through trying meany people to build a affinity group that makes a difference. hamishcampbell.com/2022/09/19/ 

People who PUSH “solutions” while they are obviously bowed down eyes on the ground to the #deathcult are pushing problems, not solutions. This is not an obvious statement to our “liberals” thus they way to often PUSH “solutions” over real working alternatives. #BLOCKING and adding to the social mess and #techshit we need to compost.

No matter how “nice” they are as individuals, their, perhaps well intended, work is a problem adding to the mess. I should not need to talk about this, but lets as few people I know understand these obverse points:

* Liberals talk about individuals, they talk about personal actions and personal responsibility. This is how you tell you are talking to a liberal.

* socialists, anarchists and leftists talk about social groups, community actions, social change and challenge. This is how you tell you are talking to a radical progressive.

So try judging people you are talking about to get a better idea who is #BLOCKING and who has the possibility of doing anything useful.

#OGB #OMN are grassroots paths.

Focus on things we don’t actually know are going to fail

We need non #deathcult #mainstreaming there are meany ideas to make this happen but no agreement on which one to take 🙂

I am into grassroots as have long expirence of this working at local levels and federation gives us an option to try this for larger groups, that is worth trying #OGB

The problem we face is that most of these tech project paths we know do not work, as the same #geekproblem projects has been tried meany times over the last 20 years.

One thing we need to do is focus on stopping this utterly pointless #techchurn to focus on things we don’t actually know are going to fail… but yes, you would be right to point out we don’t know these ideas will work as we haven’t tried them yet…

This is a good problem to have #OGB

A sordid story of fear and punishment, and a path to walk away from this


“It is not the consciousness of men that determines their being, but, on the contrary, their social being that determines their consciousness.”

People are shaped by the “dominant social thinking” this should not be a radical thing to say as its obverses. People survive by deigning this, blinded to this obverse thinking. To stay blind, they #BLOCK challenges to their blindness.

Why do people choice to be blind in our sunlight world? The is a circle here, people who push #mainstreaming agenda are “reworded” and those who push agenst mainstreaming are “punished”. The desire to be blinded, to live bowed down and prostrate eyes turned to the darkness come from this simple reword and punishment that binds together the current social mess we very sadly think is normal.

“(Men) make their own history, but they do not make it as they please; they do not make it under self-selected circumstances, but under circumstances existing already, given and transmitted from the past.”

People find meaning and build their lives in the twilight, constantly pushing away glints of light that might illuminant too strongly the social squallier and everyday cruelty there #mainstreaming has pushed out into the shadows away from them, all around them.

The human condition has always embedded this desire/need for blindness, yes, sometimes we have rebled, the era of the enlightenment, some fractions of the 20th century are examples, most times and most people have conformed, we have strong confirmatory today.

This is expressed in different ways in different eras, in the post-modern and dogmatic liberal times we live in I find #stupidindividualism to be descriptive, a shard of light to blind the everted eyes, if people take the time to acclimatize to the gloom this illuminates they might find themselves and there “community” a path out of this mess.

The is hope here, you can take the “stupid” away from “individualism” a simple idea, though a not easy path to take #OMN

A conversation about money and the #openweb


A conversation with the #NGO side of social technology:

A. Just booked my place for ePIC next month in Lille. It’ll be my first time on the Eurostar!

https://epic.openrecognition.org

A decade ago, it was the first conference I went to as Mozilla’s Badges & Skills lead. Time flies.

#OpenBadges #VerifiableCredentials #ePortfolios #conference #travel

Q. these things are kinda hopelessly expensive. You have to worship the #deathcult to attend… Hard to know what to do with these two track approaches… Kinda can’t be #openweb are the any that are happening outside the temples of death #XR

Ps this is a metaphor 🙂

A. I think that’s a complicated way of saying you can’t afford to go?

Q. is a social comment about events like this, there are a lot of them. How can non #mainstreaming people get involved in #openweb events like this, a good subject for you to bring up, if you would, thanks. Ps. Not #stupidindividualism I should not have to say that.

A. My opinion is that you can’t have your cake and eat it? You can’t live outside the mainstream, throw rocks at it, and then complain when it doesn’t accommodate you?

Q. yep, I have spent my whole life outside the #mainstreaming, much of it building up and working on #openweb projects and content. Do you not find what you just said cruel and dismissive? Good to think on this and hopefully bring it up at the event. Not picking on you here, or attacking you, social commentary is not a bad thing on the #openweb

A. Social commentary is not what you’re doing here. You’re just replying to me to reinforce your worldview. So no, I don’t think I’m being cruel and dismissive. Perhaps you should think about your theory of change about how you’re going to build a constituency of people to change the world? It’s certaintly not by being a reply-guy 🙄

Q. dismissive and curl second time. Now this is just being a prat “It’s certainly not by being a reply-guy” OK, please have a think about how to bring the #openweb away from the current #mainstreaming that events like this embody (due to cost) as we are heading for social/environmental disaster fast, the is no good outcome from the #deathcult we all worship, we do need a working #openweb for a better outcome.

A. So you reply to me with the #deathcult hashtag after I share excitement about going to an event? And I’m being unreasonable? I’ve never had a positive interaction with you, Hamish. You might wear that as a badge of honour, but I’ve finally realised it’s time to mute you. Good luck.

Q. OK, please have a think about how to bring the #openweb away from the current #mainstreaming that events like this embody (due to cost) as we are heading for social/environmental disaster fast, the is no good outcome from the #deathcult we all worship, we do need a working #openweb for a better outcome.

Ask the question of what needs fixing.

Open-Source Security: How Digital Infrastructure Is Built on a House of Cards – Lawfare” https://www.lawfareblog.com/open-source-security-how-digital-infrastructure-built-house-cards

Can you see the underlining problem assumptions in this #mainstreaming agenda? Pushing ideas to “protect the commons” almost always ends up distorting the commons, there is a history in nature to this.

As the article says in a round about way, the problem is the irresponsible failure of the market mechanisms that try and exploit the commons. There is a long history to this.

Now ask the question of what needs fixing?

Talking about hope and dispair in tech

Q. A lot of evil stuff happens via the cyberweb, no doubt. But I would encourage anyone who still knows how it works not to give up on it. Instead, try to work around the BS and design systems which are resilient to adversaries. As conditions of life get harder and the oligarchy turns the screws we need channels of dissident communication, even if they are no longer mainstream ones. Even retro stuff may go under the radar.

A. This is a social tech problem, a #geekproblem and the solution is social tech that steps away from the #geekproblem we cant just keep doing the same #techshit it’s time for composting #indymediaback #OMN are example of this that are currently blocked.

Q. As far as I could understand from what you said, what would then be exactly the social related problem to solve ? Are you referring to the way spying agencies like the CIA that is dominating the hacktivist scene, are creating “trends” on how to be safe online, which have most of the time no true impact regarding the possibilities of such agencies to continue spying and having social control? So you mean it’s a matter of being good at creating counter propaganda to cancel

A. You are describing the problems, then adding a layer of self-destruction to the problem, that’s not helpful. The #openweb has been “destroyed” by some forces you name. But we have also played a role in destroying it ourselves in refection to the real problems you highlight. We have little power over the first and more power over the second. It’s hopeful to think about this #geekproblem

Q. The #openweb wasn’t destroyed exactly. If you look at the numbers of websites over time, the open web is still there, but what happened is that almost all of the attention got captured by a small number of enormous corporate sites. The corporate sites made themselves critical conduits for search and discovery of news and views, such that the notion of “web surfing” has become almost obsolete. Google search increasingly won’t show much of the open web, because it’s not within the targeted ads business model.

A. yes my point, the #openweb is under a thin veneer of corporate crap. The #fedivers is a tiny break out of this that seceded because it was “accidentally” anti #geekproblem we need to be hardcore anti #geekproblem is the is to be HOPE 🙂

Q. The success of the fediverse did have a very large element of luck to it. Before 2017 it was doing very badly, and I remember unsuccessfully trying to persuade people to try GNU Social instead of going on Facebook. Even people who hated Facebook were reluctant to try the fediverse. Also my interpretation is that ActivityPub was originally a corporate idea but that the corporates lost interest, leaving its development to a few remaining grassroots activists. If the corporates had stayed that ActivityPub would probably be something quite different.

A. Yep, gave me hope, though it’s failing now – we have to stop fucking up this grassroots tech. A start is talking about the #geekproblem and using these to start composting #techshit

Q. The fediverse isn’t failing as such, but is becoming an established technology and so is no longer shiny or something which a clueless tech journalist would want to breathlessly scribble about as a new phenomena. Like XMPP and other previous protocols it is getting into the “plateau of productivity” where it mostly “just works”. There are complaints about lack of spec development, and some of those are justified. But ActivityPub doesn’t need to do all the things, it only needs to do one job well – that of being a social network protocol.

A. yes, it’s not failing in its own terms. But it is not heading to success in the bigger picture of being a alt to the #dotcons I should know being involved for the last few years outreaching it to the #mainstreaming that understands it has a #closedweb problem. The #EU outreach is interesting in this and likely also going to fail in the wider mission. It’s hard to push #openweb in a era controlled by #stupidindividualism and capitalism/alt diesper.

Q. It depends on what the EU’s wider mission is, but I expect that it’s not really a grassroots type of mission anyway. Whatever the machinations or motives of the EU, we do need to maintain a viable space for people who actively don’t want to be stuck in the corporate hellscape. And we shouldn’t assume that the EU will continuously bankroll some projects.

A. At the #EU it’s a power politics fight between the need for #open in a organization that is all about #closed people know they need to change but are only brave to pretend to do this. Am interested if a little crack of #open might be enough to undermine the monolith. Problem is everyone is up for selling out #open to grab a bit of #closed so only weak #open PUSH is all we have, needs to be sharper and harder push. Think stake and vampire level of PUSH with a few blows of a mallet to drive the point home. #open has power over closed, just like light over darkness.

Stepping away from our tech mess – you need to compost it


It’s good that people try not to push pointless tech projects… And the majority of new tech projects are obviously pointless. To get an idea of what to push do a review and publish this, let’s build a community of useful tech together. We need to do better.

#techchurn has made so much #techshit over the last 10 years. There are piles of #mainstreaming and alt tech that needs to be composted to grow a more humane world. Focus on what we CAN change and what we do have directing (social) power over, our mess.

From a grassroots prospective, we don’t have alternatives as they have been devoured and turned into shit by #NGO #fashernistas and social #deathcult worshipping (40 years of neoliberalism)

Thus, your/our lack of motivation, in my lifetime there were meany anarchist/ecological/socialist alternatives which kinda worked in imperfect ways.

Let’s use federated tech to reboot these from before they were killed and eaten by this mess, and innovate om this.

#OMN #indymediaback