A. Activist video https://visionon.tv/videos/local?sort=-trending&allVideos=true&c=true&s=3 on the #Fediverse
Or they might have done it on purpose to keep the new feature private…
Did you know they intended to implement the feature you requested, and did you ask to work with them as they did so?
(P.S. if you keep calling them geeks all the time they might not feel like you would be warm and fuzzy to work with…)
Good codeing, bad social – kinda the #geekproblem
Basically funding alowes the geeks to be geeks when the funding comes from geeks.
If you think that’s bad, though, it’s even worst when it comes from academics 😉
Lived and worked through 30 years of this tech shit. Composting, we need some composting 🙂
End thought
Note, I generally only use the “stick” after offering carrots quite a few times. Then alternate between carrot and stick with no plan for a good personal outcome.
Doing this for 20 years, in the medium/long term social change is generally visible. Yes you are right it’s a thankless task but somebody needs to do it and I live on a boat and can sail away, I half joke with the last bit.
This approach has only mediate the problems in my expirence though.
The #fedivers was booted up on grassroot #openweb passion and crowed funding, it was sustained in the early growth by crowed funding and expanded (in an often not helpful way) by #geekproblem passion. Over the last 2 years we have seen this shift sharply to “institutional” funding, some of this has been behind the seanes “think-tanks/academia” but over the last years the #EU though #NGI and more specifically #NGIzero have taken a central role in funding just about all fedivers #mainstreaming projects and much background technology.
In this, we have moved from meany 1000’s of people shaping the direction in a radically #4opens transparent way to handfuls of people controlling the levers of influence in a more opaque process. This is a clear and very obvues failing of #openweb governance, kinda normal and very obvuesly fail.
Now the wider #NGI project pour funding directly down the drain, which is a normal outcome so not an issue for us as the money is wasted anyway. #NGIzero are doing good, they are funding grassroots #openweb technology, so they are people we should work with.
How do we start to mediate this issue “In this we have moved from meany 1000’s of people shaping the direction in a transparent way to handfuls of people controlling the levers of influence in a more opaque process” And more importantly rebalance the #mainstreaming agenda that flows with this funding https://unite.openworlds.info/Open-Media-Network/4opens/wiki/Funding-of-openweb-projects this second part is a BIG problem, this first part is about democracy, the second part is hard politics, and is more nasty.
Example, a horizontal public BBB video online meeting where the organizers are the only one who have access to the share notepad space. Note in BBB this is open by default, so a moderator closed it on the assumption that this was the right thing to do.
The result, all the public input is lost in the transitory chat. The only record of the meeting is invisible to the pratisepents by design.
Let’s look at a second example from the same meeting but a break out session, the chare (who is likely lovely in person) took notes that were ONLY her agenda, ignoring the meeting input. Yes, I was non-directly rood about this. She was confused and started to try and take the agenda of the meeting badly.
Q. Should we have been silent and let her agenda and a few other #mainstreaming people been the only thing recorded in the minutes, thus the next round of funding?
A. we need to compost this crap, not add to it. Most time people do not STOP this crap process, we need to do this more.
As #NGI has 10’s of millions of euros at stake in the next funding round, easy to see shifting of the outcome in both cases is simple corruption.
The advantage of living in the digital era is that the whole event can be screen captured and all the behind UX actions are saved to log files to make it possible to name the people who change the open configuration to closed.
With the screen cap, we have a record of the public chat being ignored in the officel minutes etc. its a relatively simple task to compare them and find which voices were removed and which agender were pushed/added to shape where the money flows.
This is basic journalism. I doubt in the end anyone would be prosecuted as most of the people doing this are so arragent they do not realize that they are actually corrupt, but it would damage their carrears thus act as a brake on over all corruption in the #EU
#NGI there should be funding a tech platform/group to work on transparency like this, it’s a good stick to wave. I will do a project out line soon on https://unite.openworlds.info/Open-Media-Network/openwebgovernancebody/wiki/Corruption
With the growing influx of #EU funding into the #openweb we will see an increase in #techchurn due to the #geekproblem being feed by #mainstreaming #stupidindividualism of most of the #fashernista who can jump through the bureaucracy gatekeeper hoops.
Hoping for a balance of good Vs damage, though the shear blinded arrogance of the vertical crew push us to the damage side. #NGI do not won’t to see this problem, we as a community need to push back on this for a better outcome
Example, a horizontal public BBB meeting where the organizers are the only one who have access to the share notepad space. Note in BBB this is open by default, so a moderator closed it on the assumption that this was the right thing to do.
The result, all the public input is lost in the transitory chat.
Let’s look at a second example from the same meeting, the chare (who is likely lovely in person) took notes that were ONLY her agenda, ignoring the meeting input. Yes, I was non-directly rood about this. She was confused and started to try and take the agenda of the meeting badly.
Q. Should we have been silent and let her agenda and a few other #mainstreaming people been the only thing recorded in the minutes, thus the next round of funding?
A. we need to compost this crap, not add to it. Most time people do not STOP this crap process, we need to do this more.
As it said on the side of my blog for the last 10 years:
“A river that needs crossing political and tech – On the political side, there is arrogance and ignorance, on the geek side there is naivety and over complexity”
Orgs such as #NGIzero are unwitting feeding the “geek side there is naivety and over complexity” where the #mainstreaming #NGI are pushing the political side “arrogance and ignorance”
As I have been at the heart of this garden for more than 30 years, I think I have a better voice on this than most. That’s not arrogance, that’s truth 🙂
If you feel like talking shit please read this first https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_homin
I think the #EU guys find it hard to see how low our apion of the #mainstreaming mess they work in. The #EU people at these events are clearly incompetent on the subject of #openweb (and meany argue life on the planet in general) we all understand this in the grassroots.
If you wonder why grassroots people see the #mainstreaming as children. An example, due to the crap behaver of voting for piss poor politics, we have this boat land to look forward to. To call #mainstreaming incompetent is a clear understatement of the issue, talking to the wide #ngi project here.
We should talk about this survey https://unite.openworlds.info/Open-Media-Network/4opens/wiki/Funding-of-openweb-projects and some of the more scary issues it brining up:
NONE WOULD DO FEEDBACK IN PUBLIC, this is important. The #EU funding has some “terrorism” in the cliques that run it, as people are actually afread that they will lose their livelihood if they speak out about these issues.
Me am “chaotic governance” so I ignore this, but you guys maybe need to take this onboard if you have not already.
A carrot and stick approach is a good path. I see @ngizero as the carrot and us the “community” as the stick. With this leverage, we can push harder for a better balance of good/damage from the funding influx to the #openweb from the #EU
Good to remember here, I am seeing @NGIZero as the solution and not as the problem in what am talking about #NGI
In the end, my difficulty is that I see the #openweb funding from the #EU being pushed by a “childish” point of view that is hard to respect and that it’s likely to do more damage than good, this we need to fix somehow, if anybody wants to help with child care.
Some things to think about:
It’s interesting how the truly aporling behaver of vertical minded people is excused by power (majority vertical) when they act in easy to understand crap ways in horizontal situations. And on the other hand, how the horizontal people are vilified at every point often for simply pointing out how bad the vertical behaver is. We need to look at crap behaver in vertical organizers, as they often do not see themselves shiting over the preceding. Though this act comes ever so naturally to them.
You can see this with the suffrages, the hunger marches, the Spanish Civil War, the Greenham women, the miner’s strike, corbinisam and just about anywhere you look where the two groups meet.
It’s crap that we keep letting this happen, take note I have near zero tolerances for this!
Positive projects for a better outcome:
* One practical idea is that we do need “chaotic governance” to have a voice https://unite.openworlds.info/Open-Med
* Better focus on social tech https://unite.openworlds.info/Open-Media-Network/4opens/wiki
And more…
Talking to the #EU crew
Hope is a swift left wing flow and the strong current that pushes change/challenge. Simple truth telling is a deep upwelling, the spring that feeds this fresh flow. We need to nurture truth and hope in every part of our society, both our tribalism and bureaucracy are part of this river, more important than ever in the era of #climatechaos we are fast moving into #XR
Bring simple truth to the surface, pure spring waters helps to nourish.
In the #fedivers and wider #openweb rivers, we have increasing inflows of funding from the traditional bureaucracy. This, on the one hand, is feeding the grassroots and on the other hand shaping to a more #mainstreaming river. We need to strive to have a better outcome from this, the tools they are funding are all open licence, we need to build into them that the more bureaucratic/closed agender can be switched on and off in all these funded projects. This is a simple solution we can work towards.
Conclusion
* All flows have value, we need this influx of funding to grow the #openweb and #fedivers if we are to do challenge/change, so use this opening to shape the influx of value and to shape these institutions that push this flow. See this as an opportune for activism, rather than something to be #blocked
* On our-side, we can nurture our tribalism to this “common” course with the #4opens and simple political statements like #PGA hallmarks.
* Our more theoretical friends can use their skills to resurrect the ideas that shaped past movements and feed these into the new movements.
How can we make our media better.
* Use the carrot and the stick, talk about balance rather than conflict.
* Bring the liberals in, but keep the basic #4opens #PGA strong and visible, everyone has a role in the era of #climatechaos so be hopeful and friendly.
* If the river is cool and fresh, the #mainstreaming and #fashernistas will soon jump and swim with this flow.
We live in creative times, let’s enjoy creativity.
#NGO crew are wannabe hierarchical who hide in plain site inside every grassroots movement, they push “common-sense” agenda to “tidy” the mess that is essential to horizontal organisation. If/when the NGO crew take “power” they slowly kill the organisations they “care” for. This has happened to just about every alt org I have been involved in for more than 30 years.
Now this is not black and white as you likely jump to understand, the horizontal people let them do this each time, so the better outcome is to balance this issue, not fight for one to the other in till all is sterile dust. The horizontal crew will stand by, being feed the #stupidindividualism of #mainstreaming culture, in meany cases their tribalism means that small alt groups flower and die without laying seeds in the ground. I have seen this meany times.
Link to type article ****
Conclusion.
* NEVER let the #NGO crew take the hiricical power that they strongly desire, don’t except there “common sense” be mad and bad on this one. I mean be really mad and bad to stop this crap.
* Keep the tribalism of the horizontal crew open to fresh flows, the #4opens helps with this, making people uncomfortable is needed at times.
* DO useful stuff, if people are only talking and not doing they have less voice, repeatedly give people a chance to DO in the end you might have to be quite rood to them about this, this is a normal outcome.
Q. who are the YOU, who are the people doing, who should be mad and bad, how to make people “uncomfortable” in a useful way, how can being rood be constructive?
Why is communication so bad in our media.
* The post-truth people are full of nastiness, as this is their only reaction to challenge/change.
* Our liberals are defensive as their ideas are pushing us to extinction, they tend to join the post-truth crew in reaction to challenge/change.
* The #fashernistas go with the flow of the above, if they even see the change/challenge they react in the same way.
We live in messy times.
A. #NGIforum21 #NGI #EU It’s not “usability” its “control” – the #dotcons are built for control the #eurocrates need, the #openweb tools which work fine is for people to people.
The #openweb tools do not have the control that the #Eurocrats need to move onto our tools and be a part of our community. This is going to lead to a “invisible” fight, as they are increasingly funding development we face a crisis in the #fediverse A Sheldon crises talking the language of our crew.
Q. Yes, we should keep things people-to-people and avoid getting involved with large hierarchical organizations who will try to appear friendly but will move the development into a more centralized mode which they can then influence and have control over.
What the EU people want I think is a Silicon Valley in the EU. A digital portfolio from which they can project influence internationally and a vehicle for venture capital and new digital markets. If you read their blurb this is what they say, and I don’t have any reason to disbelieve them.
Obviously something like the fediverse doesn’t really fit with the cunning EU plan (fits like a fish riding a bicycle) and so at some point there will be an ideological parting of lovers (perhaps it has already happened, I am not following the NGI conversations).
A. The #mainstreaming funding of the #fedivers is already completely dominated by the #EU all the big projects are funded by #NGI
This is more #fuckup than conspiracy though am shore conspiracy is growing as people see the levers of power and control which comes with money agenda.
It’s an “invisible” hot war, standing aside is not an option.
Q. Maybe there should be a plan for whenever the EU launches some venture capital fediverse product. I expect it would be like what Trump is doing, but under some EU branded “incubator” and maybe with centralized moderation.
Something like that would create a tug-of-love between the revenue of projects and a centralizing agenda. I’ve been around the bloc enough times to know it’s bound to happen. These things are so formulaic.
A. I think that’s jumping ahead of were we are for the next year or two. Most of the People at #NGI pushing this agenda simple do not see the damage they do. Only a tiny number are actively “evil” currently.
We have a opening http://hamishcampbell.com the last few posts are a way to step away from this “crisis”.
Q. It’s like you can see the truck driving towards the cliff edge.
“If you go in that direction, you’ll fall off the edge”.
The driver says “Nah mate, it’s different this time”.
And you watch the truck as it reaches the precipice, and then falls off.
A. yep but need to look in the back of tuck as it’s filled with much of the #fedivers infrastructure that’s going to go over the cliff.
Actavisam is to sit down in front of the truck and refuse to move, while talking to the “press” about the issues #fluffy
Or pour sugar into the truck fual tank in the night #spiky
Standing and watching while shrugging shoulders is kinda #mainstreaming 🙂
Have been working with bridging this often hostile divide for more than 30 years in hundreds of campaigns on the ground and online. The best outcome you can hope for is “diversity of tactics/strategy”
It’s a miracle when the two sides can hold this bridge in place, the effect of this miracle is more powerful outcome for both agenders BUT the longer this bridge is held in place the stronger the internal and outside forces push to demolish it – it falls, have never seen a bridge hold for the whole campaign.
The #mainstreaming agender always supports the #fluffy aproch and pushes down the #spiky aproch so its less a question of right/wrong more a question of holding the balance agenst this #mainstreaming pushing. The balance is where maximum power lies. So yes in this forum, and in general, the “spiky” aproch has more “power” than the fluffy aproch simple because its is repressed by the mainstream and meany of the “common sense” fluffy crew.
The “debate” is in this case is a metaphor for action, it’s important to keep both approaches working and hold a bridge in place, so people can cross and communicate between them.
In tech outreach work using the hashtag #geekproblem to highlight the “need for control” that is a clear block and not a solution to the very human mess we are in. We need to build structers/code where we “lose” control of our current #mainstreaming agenders and take “control” by building bridges and holding these human bridges in place, so we can choose different paths.
The project for “governance” i brought here in the first post is a “spiky” aproch to this outcome FAQ link
Yep, best to build tools/process from “lived expirence”. We are swimming in a river of social shit with the #mainstreaming of neo-liberalism and postmodernism that is the bases of “thinking”. Thou these ideology died years ago, the zombies of both are still eating our social brains.
You guys experienced it here, when I came to this well “fluffy” space I was met with a well “spiky” reception. The more dogmatic liberals can often be VERY spiky were the #fahernista radicals are generally kinda “fluffy” in their actual outcomes. Lifting the lid and look at the actions, don’t take what people say at face value, to see the fluffy/spiky debate in action, by lifting this lid you start to build a bridge…
Putting and holding this bridge in place is the start of power for social change/challenge.
I came here because you guys have useful skills to help build the tools we need Online governance – openwebgovernancebody – Gitea: Open Media Network
Monsters, scratch our fluff crew, and they turn spiky, repression is a universal human problem to be mediated. The subject of the fluffy/spiky debate – respect for diversity and the desire for debate based on this respect is a core outcome. We need to build bridges.
That is clearly passive-aggressive.
You feeling discomfort… did you read the links and think about what I was expressing or did you stop at the “discomfort”?
Yep, talk about what people bring here, engage, think…
” A. I find it interesting, and revealing, that nobody here actually talked about what the thried was about Online governance – openwebgovernancebody – Gitea: Open Media Network ”
UPDATE
Good place to start from.
In the 1990’s anti-road moment that grew into the early 2000’s anti-capitalist/antiglobalisation movements. This time solved meany issues in activism/grassroots outcomes. One of these was a way of mediating the blocking of communication we have here. They called it the “fluffy/spiky debate”, note you will only find mentions of this as we are crap at keeping our own history, lets not start a conversation on “our” academics and the crap they feed 
The most important part is the “debate” which leads to a VERY HARD idea “diversity of tactics” on the ground and online. The quote above is a small step to this.
A fluffy view of governance Kees Boeke – Wikipedia
A spiky view of governance Online governance – openwebgovernancebody – Gitea: Open Media Network
Both have value, BUT one has more value for existing society than the other as it’s deigned to work in a mess. The other is fine for “calming” situations for small “inward” looking groups
In the era of #climatechaos and the #mainstreaming swing to the right-wing we need to build and maintain bridges that keep respect for the “fluffy/spiky debate” in place.
And most importantly these process need to work in mess.
What do you think?
UPDATE
Remember I have met some of these people. What do you think I should do with these guys, they hid posts 6 times, they permanently removed one post,
They pushed Ad hominem – Wikipedia attacks in meany replys, not just ones.
FINALLY, one of them likely reads some links and posts something that has relevance to what am talking about, and I reply to this very late first step and SILENCE.
Don’t blame them, this is kinda normal, but this takes the fluffy outa fluffy and shows the spiky that is always a part of activism.
As I say this is normal for this group of people
What to do with them?
There are circles in protest and most alternative grassroots movements. It’s a moment of beauty when a group of people find power and worth in what they are/doing in reaction to #mainstreaming entrenched power pushing over them.
But what happens next has a long much recurring bad outcome, so is worth taking a little time to work through.
Let’s look at #Londonboaters as an example. The group was founded as a grassroots group to push back against the British Waterways enclosure of the waterways as a commons shared by all the vibrant boater community with their strong DIY histories.
This, LB succeeded in doing. But for the 10 years after, it lost its focus and became little more than a way of mediating the decline of the boater community against this every returning threat. As it did/could not resolve these issues, it has come to a head again with the same threat returning.
This time CRT pushing strong agendas, to control boater moorings and movement. With the looming threat the human community focus and the beauty we lost in the downtime emerges anew.
For this renewal the term “CRT not fit for purpose” is as much a defence against our own selling us out, as an attempt to replace CRT with something better, which everyone agrees is a hard thing to do.
In social movement the POWER and ENERGY comes from the grassroots. BUT the management, negotiation, control all too often comes from a small self-selecting group of well-meaning generally middle class people. This often becomes unhealthy when these people push different agendas based on different lived experiences. In this, nobody is inherently wrong, but the outcome tends to become VERY wrong for everyone involved.
In any movement you will have these different groups. The grassroots side will have different voices, the privileged people tend to be more focused on career and working with/for power. They use this experience to become the spokes people for the movement. This is a useful role when they share many of the grassroots agendas. BUT a minority of the most #mainstreaming amongst them will see this as a career move to gain the status they need by negotiating with CRT. In this, the agendas get muddled and in the end almost always are betrayed in “common sense” compromises with power, with these “compromises” inevitably after a time this circle starts again.
“CRT not fit for purpose” is a first step outside this circle – the privileged people negotiating “common sense” look and feel dirty to the grassroots movement. This helps to curb the actions to sell out and the movement acceptance of this messy outcome.
Background: BW was the old bureaucratic government agency who thought live aboard boats were a nuisance that mess up their tidy control of the waterways. This was replaced with CRT who were set up as a thinly vailed charity/NGO structure to privatize and sell off everything… it was the thing to do in the Thatcher/Blair years… it’s a problem now that this neo-liberal ideology is dead and stinking. What to do with the corpuses… CRT is a zombie of a past era.
UPDATE the boater won the issue the day after this grassroots event that inspired this post. CRT backed down and postponed their plans for mooring restrictions for further “consultation”.
“In developing any future byelaws, the CRT must demonstrate that it has taken into consideration the specific needs of all stakeholders, including itinerant boat dwellers.”
From LINK
