What can we learn, what can we do?

The tension between different approaches to activism highlights the need for creative synthesis in addressing the broader social and ecological crises we face.

  1. Fluffy vs. #Spiky: A Diversity of Tactics The idea that both working within the system (#fluffy) and challenging it directly (#spiky) are necessary is central to creating a robust and adaptive movement. Building “common ground” is crucial, but the left’s fragmentation under decades of #neoliberalism and #postmodernism has left it standing in a metaphorical swamp. Moving forward requires reclaiming a grounded, shared space—intellectually, socially, and ecologically.
  2. Revisiting #Modernism A return to modernist thinking—despite its flaws—can offer clarity and purpose, emphasizing structure, progress, and shared goals. Balancing this with the experimental potential of socialism and anarchism, especially on a distributed scale (enabled by federation and P2P technologies), creates room for growth outside the mainstream.
  3. Liberal Social Democracy as a Step Back While the ultimate goal may lie in more radical transformations, liberal social democracy can serve as a stepping stone away from the creeping threat of fascism. This pragmatic approach helps to stabilize the ground for further progress.
  4. Deathcult vs. #Lifecult: The Cultural Meta-Narrative The #deathcult metaphor encapsulates a culture driven by greed, materialism, and ecological destruction. The #lifecult offers a messy but hopeful alternative, grounded in values like ecology, social justice, and collective care. The process of “composting”—transforming negative aspects into fertile ground—is a powerful metaphor for this shift.
  5. The Role of Undercurrents True hope lies in the undercurrents of social movements that challenge mainstream culture and provide alternative narratives. These undercurrents, messy as they may be, are where transformative potential resides. A focus on “life-affirming values” helps to communicate with those who may be entrenched in rationality or blinded by the logic of the #deathcult.

Suggestions for Moving Forward: Focus on finding shared values between different activist approaches to grow solidarity while respecting diversity of tactics. Encourage scalable experimentation with alternative economic and social models, with federation and P2P tech to scale these efforts. Storytelling using metaphors like #deathcult and #lifecult to reframe conversations and make complex issues relatable and actionable. Education and agitation to challenge apathy and #stupidindividualism by helping people reconnect with collective action and shared purpose. Ecology of movements, its helpful to recognize the importance of both reformist (#fluffy) and radical (#spiky) approaches as complementary rather than contradictory.

And most importantly please try not to be a #blocking prat.

Talking to friendly people who have built their careers on and in #postmodernism

I have been at the coal face of affective direct action for a progressive change/challenge of the current mess for all my life, well this is a family history going back 3 generations. And this makes meany issues obvious as they keep happening, they circal, and if we are to be the change we need to be, we need to mediate some of these bad circles #KISS

This is one #blocking

Q. Dude will tie themselves into knots rationalising their desire to be selfish by citing everything between Aristoteles, John Dewey, and utilitarianism, in lengthy hyper-complex intellectual posturing that basically just boils down to: “But I wanna!”

A. This is true, with the #postmodern default we would end up with mess. What happens if we try not to do the postmodernist default? What would that looklike #nothingnew

Q. This has nothing to do with postmodernism and everything to do with dudes rationalising their own selfishness.

A. You are not wrong, but step back for a wider view to try and see and talk about the root of this mess. I would say this is an example of #blocking from the #postmodern path. Can we look at this from a #modernist view to take a different path? Good faith question.

Q. So, I did a PhD that focused on the application of Derrida’s ideas to interactivity. I’m not the guy you come at trying to blame postmodernism for all the world’s ills.

A. can understand that, trying to highlight the bad use of the #mainstreaming of #postmodernism and highlight this in the current social mess of the last 40 years. And yes, understand that #postmodernisam and #neoliberalism are dead ideologies. But they have both deeply shaped the last 40 years of #mainstreaming culture. The mess we work in today, thus it is useful to ask questions on good paths out of this mess.

Q. Yeah, that’s nonsense. Sorry, not sorry. It’s all capitalism all the way down. Philosophical movements such as postmodernism or modernism are just window-dressing on an amoral, anti-intellectual capitalist hellscape. Any philosophical movement, even the ones that power actually pays attention to such as utilitarianism, is just completely irrelevant. Deck chairs on the Titanic.

Q. OK we can leave this here… if ideas and thinking do not matter then mess it is. Mess can be good, and it can be bad, in the current social mess it’s VERY bad https://visionon.tv/w/gq6qCiUoC2J8RqhYHgpmzq how to deal with this is a good faith question.

Q. Also, I always have an extreme scepticism about those who blame postmodernism for society’s ills because a lot of the anti-postmodernists are bedfellows with reactionaries who think these cultural ideas have mainstreamed moral and sexual degeneracy, which is just code for homophobia, transphobia, and misogyny.

A. Can continue this if you like. Let’s put this one into the #mainstreaming miss use of #postmodernisam the is a lot of this, kinda of a natural outcome, it’s a mess. Am with Chomsky on this one https://visionon.tv/w/p/kaafmbuLWyASifGg7DZ9y3 What would a #modernist path out of the current mess look like? And yes, I understand there is a bad history. Let’s not re tread that path. What is a good path? An example is #XR “tell the truth” is a modernist path. Tell the “truths” it is not.

Q. No, let’s retread that path. You’re repurposing the argument of the religious right. They blame society’s decline on postmodernism having mainstreamed moral relativism. You don’t get to gloss over the fact that this is specifically an attack against gay rights, trans rights, and women’s rights. There is no causal link between the state of the world and postmodernism. It’s all about power and money. Blaming postmodernism sides you with the most hateful reactionaries around

A. Think this is easy to answer.
Nop,
Nop,

And worth talking about, there are overlaps between the economics of #neoliberalism and the use of #postmodern philosophy over the last 40 years. We have a HUGE social mess, and no social language or thinking to compost this mess. We need a way of thinking, #Modernism is a shovel, we have lots of mess to compost.

Q. You are not making any sense whatsoever. What matters is who is in power. If you want change, you need to change who is in power using whatever nonviolent, peaceful means available. Blaming postmodernism and “social mess” sounds to me like you’re just a reactionary who wants to walk back gay rights, reproductive rights, trans rights, women’s rights, and civil rights in general. It sounds like bigotry. Postmodernism and “moral relativism” is a favourite punching bag of the religious right and fascists. When you come at me with the same kind of rhetoric, I have to assume that you’re sympathetic to their ideas on society and culture.

A. Am obviously not talking about that. Defensiveness and personalizing this is not useful, apart from it illustrates what I am talking about. https://visionon.tv/w/sNo39CPaX7MswQ57tVy2TR mess and more mess. Is #modernism useful for taking a different path is what I am asking.

UPDATE: Sorry the video links are offline the was not any money or resources to keep the video project online after 20 years, it’s sad and dysfunctional, if anyone has a big donation we could put it back online https://opencollective.com/open-media-network